Professor Cuniberti has lived for years in Dresden, Germany, where he heads the university's Materials Science and Nanotechnology chair, as well as the Max Bergmann Center for Biomaterials. “I studied in Genoa and graduated there before a stint at MIT in Boston. Wistful of Italy I returned to Genoa for the doctoral competition, which I won. Back in Italy, I yes found again the “Grande Bellezza” I had left behind, but I also realized that the University had neither the financial means nor the ambition to play in the big league of nanotechnology. So I finished my thesis in Germany, in Hamburg.
It was difficult to integrate therefore.
At the time I did not know Germans, so I would answer yes. But now that I understand, and appreciate, the “rules of the game,” I can say with certainty that I fit in better here than in an American environment.
Substantial differences between the two environments?
In the U.S. it seems like you are all buddy-buddy, friendly, greeting each other with “Hey how are you doing?” in every situation. The German is much stricter in deciding who is a friend and who is not. And those who are friends remain friends forever. In America it has always been easy to make friends but the truth is that many are just acquaintances. In Germany the interpersonal armor is definitely harder, but if you can break through it you can build a very strong relationship.
After Hamburg?
I went back to Genoa for a one-and-a-half-year postdoc, and following that I did another one in complex systems physics here in Dresden at the Max Planck Institute. After that I won a Grant from the Volkswagen Foundation. With that Grant I founded a research group in Regensburg. It was the first time I could teach and follow a research group at the same time. I was 32 years old and highly motivated. In 2006 I started getting offers to “go tenure-track” at several German universities, including Dresden, which I already knew and liked. I finally chose it, against everyone's advice.
Why did everyone advise against Dresden?
Because it was part of East Germany. To everyone it was still “East,” and it was unthinkable to move there when there were offers from cities like Ulm! But there was always something about Dresden that attracted me and now I know what it is. First of all, Dresden was the cultural capital of Germany for centuries and is becoming one again. The recovery and growth of Saxony is amazing, the investment in research portentous. For example, as far as my field is concerned, nowhere else would I find the facilities and funding that I have here. I work in a more interdisciplinary and challenging environment than ever before. I work in materials science, a real niche that needs basic chemical-physical research but also collaborations with companies to develop new products. In this sense Dresden has always been full of opportunities.
Did you plan from the beginning to build a career in Germany or did it happen?
It happened. First of all, you have to keep in mind that if you want to do physics you cannot live in “academic incest,” it is an unwritten rule. The best thing of course is to move to a center of some importance. The Max Planck was a place with a very good reputation, but I always worked with the prospect of going back to the United States. Senonchè, I fell in love. The choice to stay was therefore a sentimental one. Slowly I became fascinated, however, by these Deutsche Vita where you work less but produce more. I think it is because the tasks are organized and distributed in a very precise and meritocratic way. Here if you are a professor, you can really be a professor. In Italy, on the other hand, places are created but without the resources to manage them. Example, which I think is fitting: when they build a building here they also calculate in the budget the maintenance expenses for the first ten years, which are put in a special fund. Preventing problems is more efficient than curing them. Working efficiently makes life lighter. In contrast, in Italy, due to the inherent inefficiency of the system, academic work is quite heavy. We are therefore used to working harder.
Instead, the Germans see us as slackers. A prejudice that always baffles me!
Even better if they underestimate us! Italian rhythms in a system such as Germany's, which has such extreme job differentiation and for which work-life balance is very important, can take us to great heights!
Data regarding the development of the nanotechnology sector show a clear gap between Germany and Italy, with our Bel Paese lagging behind in Europe in terms of the number of patents filed and its German counterpart the undisputed leader. Data in hand, it seems logical to move to work in Germany. Do you confirm or do you think that in any case Italy also has something to offer?
Italy is very differentiated, there are happy islands in our sector such as the Italian Institute of Technology in, as it happens, Genoa. Having said that, we have to consider that today the world has finally become small and round, transportation costs have lowered so much over the years that it is getting easier to move around. So, given that situation, if you wanted to learn, let's say, Hebrew, would you go to a small town near your city where you know there is a professor who has studied Hebrew or would you get on a plane and go to Jerusalem? What I recommend is to go to the places where things are done better.
Which for your sector is Germany?
It's definitely one of the best. It's the country to move to without having huge culture shocks because to be fair, there's also Korea and Japan.
You hold a professorship in South Korea and also one in the United States. So you can boast an overview of America, Europe and Asia!
I have noticed that in some respects Korea is the most interesting country. They came later than their Western colleagues but they are growing at a very high rate and therefore investing in research. Of course, it is a different culture full of obstacles, language first and foremost.
Right, let's talk about the language! How was the impact with German?
Drama. Especially for social life. At university you do everything in English and German is almost not needed. The problem is when you have to talk to the administration, the rector, the local community, politicians, industrialists. I made the mistake of not taking any language courses and just learning it in the field, talking to people. At first I felt like an idiot going out with German friends and understanding so little. Even today my German is very rudimentary. (not true, ed).
Adding it all up, how do you find it in Germany?
Fine, just fine! I found no real problems, only challenges. I was able to realize my dream of doing research independently, research that is well funded, and I work in a highly meritocratic system. I know that if I work I get to an output. In Germany I got tenure as a full professor at the age of 36. In Italy I would have arrived at the same result after my third prostate operation.
In the rankings of the best countries to emigrate to, Germany is always at the top. However, expats from all over the world find it difficult to integrate with the local population. From the point of view of work life, career, they are completely fulfilled. But in terms of the human aspect, there is a lot of dissatisfaction. Germans are generally cold and closed, the immigrant is viewed with suspicion.
That's true, but I like that. In general, Northern European countries are the most economically developed and also notoriously more rigid in terms of social relations than South European countries. Coldness has its advantages, for example it helps with law enforcement and implements results. Where “compassion” is high, performance is worse. The only paradox I know of is California.
However, you also have to look at the other side of the coin: here in Germany there is a respect for the other person that is incredible. If you had shown up with fuchsia hair, as an Italian I would have immediately thought, “but where did that come from?” A German would have simply not cared, maybe someone would have thought “come on, what a beautiful color.” The German doesn't judge you (or if he does, he doesn't show it). Here you can go to the Semperoper, one of the most beautiful theaters and with one of the most highly regarded orchestras in the world, even dressed casually. Can one do the same at La Scala?
Do you get along well in Korea as well?
Yes, very much, and it would seem difficult since it is such a different country where integration seems difficult. It's all in the way of posture, learning to be a citizen of the world. If you go abroad but insist on wanting Recco cheese focaccia, walnut sauce or real pesto genovese then you are living the meager life. The question is: Are we willing, as expats, to integrate? Or are we willing to take Little Italy with us?
In Italy it seems essential to do college at the speed of light. In Germany sabbatical and semester off are the norm.
Germany is a rich country, there is plenty of work. Look at Il Sorpasso with Vittorio Gassman or, in general, Italian films from the 1960s. How relaxed were they! If the society is rich, it is also relaxed. The problem “of doing it fast” was born in the 1990s. Another reason: the Italian business landscape is composed of small to medium-sized, manufacturing and artisan companies that want efficient employees. It is therefore natural that they are more likely to hire young graduates, rather than 30-year-olds with stellar academic records. Big business, by contrast, needs people who strategize, who can do research and design. I am thinking therefore of Bayer, BMW, BASF.
I have no more questions! Do you still want to say something, do you have a message you definitely want to leave for posterity?
Yes! One must always keep in mind that work is not everything, one must also try to live well and have a fulfilling life from ever
Professor Cuniberti has lived for years in Dresden, Germany, where he heads the university's Materials Science and Nanotechnology chair, as well as the Max Bergmann Center for Biomaterials. “I studied in Genoa and graduated there before a stint at MIT in Boston. Wistful of Italy I returned to Genoa for the doctoral competition, which I won. Back in Italy, I yes found again the “Grande Bellezza” I had left behind, but I also realized that the University had neither the financial means nor the ambition to play in the big league of nanotechnology. So I finished my thesis in Germany, in Hamburg.
It was difficult to integrate therefore.
At the time I did not know Germans, so I would answer yes. But now that I understand, and appreciate, the “rules of the game,” I can say with certainty that I fit in better here than in an American environment.
Substantial differences between the two environments?
In the U.S. it seems like you are all buddy-buddy, friendly, greeting each other with “Hey how are you doing?” in every situation. The German is much stricter in deciding who is a friend and who is not. And those who are friends remain friends forever. In America it has always been easy to make friends but the truth is that many are just acquaintances. In Germany the interpersonal armor is definitely harder, but if you can break through it you can build a very strong relationship.
After Hamburg?
I went back to Genoa for a one-and-a-half-year postdoc, and following that I did another one in complex systems physics here in Dresden at the Max Planck Institute. After that I won a Grant from the Volkswagen Foundation. With that Grant I founded a research group in Regensburg. It was the first time I could teach and follow a research group at the same time. I was 32 years old and highly motivated. In 2006 I started getting offers to “go tenure-track” at several German universities, including Dresden, which I already knew and liked. I finally chose it, against everyone's advice.
Why did everyone advise against Dresden?
Because it was part of East Germany. To everyone it was still “East,” and it was unthinkable to move there when there were offers from cities like Ulm! But there was always something about Dresden that attracted me and now I know what it is. First of all, Dresden was the cultural capital of Germany for centuries and is becoming one again. The recovery and growth of Saxony is amazing, the investment in research portentous. For example, as far as my field is concerned, nowhere else would I find the facilities and funding that I have here. I work in a more interdisciplinary and challenging environment than ever before. I work in materials science, a real niche that needs basic chemical-physical research but also collaborations with companies to develop new products. In this sense Dresden has always been full of opportunities.
Did you plan from the beginning to build a career in Germany or did it happen?
It happened. First of all, you have to keep in mind that if you want to do physics you cannot live in “academic incest,” it is an unwritten rule. The best thing of course is to move to a center of some importance. The Max Planck was a place with a very good reputation, but I always worked with the prospect of going back to the United States. Senonchè, I fell in love. The choice to stay was therefore a sentimental one. Slowly I became fascinated, however, by these Deutsche Vita where you work less but produce more. I think it is because the tasks are organized and distributed in a very precise and meritocratic way. Here if you are a professor, you can really be a professor. In Italy, on the other hand, places are created but without the resources to manage them. Example, which I think is fitting: when they build a building here they also calculate in the budget the maintenance expenses for the first ten years, which are put in a special fund. Preventing problems is more efficient than curing them. Working efficiently makes life lighter. In contrast, in Italy, due to the inherent inefficiency of the system, academic work is quite heavy. We are therefore used to working harder.
Instead, the Germans see us as slackers. A prejudice that always baffles me!
Even better if they underestimate us! Italian rhythms in a system such as Germany's, which has such extreme job differentiation and for which work-life balance is very important, can take us to great heights!
Data regarding the development of the nanotechnology sector show a clear gap between Germany and Italy, with our Bel Paese lagging behind in Europe in terms of the number of patents filed and its German counterpart the undisputed leader. Data in hand, it seems logical to move to work in Germany. Do you confirm or do you think that in any case Italy also has something to offer?
Italy is very differentiated, there are happy islands in our sector such as the Italian Institute of Technology in, as it happens, Genoa. Having said that, we have to consider that today the world has finally become small and round, transportation costs have lowered so much over the years that it is getting easier to move around. So, given that situation, if you wanted to learn, let's say, Hebrew, would you go to a small town near your city where you know there is a professor who has studied Hebrew or would you get on a plane and go to Jerusalem? What I recommend is to go to the places where things are done better.
Which for your sector is Germany?
It's definitely one of the best. It's the country to move to without having huge culture shocks because to be fair, there's also Korea and Japan.
You hold a professorship in South Korea and also one in the United States. So you can boast an overview of America, Europe and Asia!
I have noticed that in some respects Korea is the most interesting country. They came later than their Western colleagues but they are growing at a very high rate and therefore investing in research. Of course, it is a different culture full of obstacles, language first and foremost.
Right, let's talk about the language! How was the impact with German?
Drama. Especially for social life. At university you do everything in English and German is almost not needed. The problem is when you have to talk to the administration, the rector, the local community, politicians, industrialists. I made the mistake of not taking any language courses and just learning it in the field, talking to people. At first I felt like an idiot going out with German friends and understanding so little. Even today my German is very rudimentary. (not true, ed).
Adding it all up, how do you find it in Germany?
Fine, just fine! I found no real problems, only challenges. I was able to realize my dream of doing research independently, research that is well funded, and I work in a highly meritocratic system. I know that if I work I get to an output. In Germany I got tenure as a full professor at the age of 36. In Italy I would have arrived at the same result after my third prostate operation.
In the rankings of the best countries to emigrate to, Germany is always at the top. However, expats from all over the world find it difficult to integrate with the local population. From the point of view of work life, career, they are completely fulfilled. But in terms of the human aspect, there is a lot of dissatisfaction. Germans are generally cold and closed, the immigrant is viewed with suspicion.
That's true, but I like that. In general, Northern European countries are the most economically developed and also notoriously more rigid in terms of social relations than South European countries. Coldness has its advantages, for example it helps with law enforcement and implements results. Where “compassion” is high, performance is worse. The only paradox I know of is California.
However, you also have to look at the other side of the coin: here in Germany there is a respect for the other person that is incredible. If you had shown up with fuchsia hair, as an Italian I would have immediately thought, “but where did that come from?” A German would have simply not cared, maybe someone would have thought “come on, what a beautiful color.” The German doesn't judge you (or if he does, he doesn't show it). Here you can go to the Semperoper, one of the most beautiful theaters and with one of the most highly regarded orchestras in the world, even dressed casually. Can one do the same at La Scala?
Do you get along well in Korea as well?
Yes, very much, and it would seem difficult since it is such a different country where integration seems difficult. It's all in the way of posture, learning to be a citizen of the world. If you go abroad but insist on wanting Recco cheese focaccia, walnut sauce or real pesto genovese then you are living the meager life. The question is: Are we willing, as expats, to integrate? Or are we willing to take Little Italy with us?
In Italy it seems essential to do college at the speed of light. In Germany sabbatical and semester off are the norm.
Germany is a rich country, there is plenty of work. Look at Il Sorpasso with Vittorio Gassman or, in general, Italian films from the 1960s. How relaxed were they! If the society is rich, it is also relaxed. The problem “of doing it fast” was born in the 1990s. Another reason: the Italian business landscape is composed of small to medium-sized, manufacturing and artisan companies that want efficient employees. It is therefore natural that they are more likely to hire young graduates, rather than 30-year-olds with stellar academic records. Big business, by contrast, needs people who strategize, who can do research and design. I am thinking therefore of Bayer, BMW, BASF.
I have no more questions! Do you still want to say something, do you have a message you definitely want to leave for posterity?
Yes! One must always keep in mind that work is not everything, one must also try to live well and have a fulfilling life from ever
